Transcript:                    Thanks, Alan. Today our special guest is Kelli Cooper, LOA coach and digital nomad, which is, of course, welcome, Kelli. You can help us define LOA.

Kelli Cooper:                Well, hi, David. Thank you for having me. I’m always excited to talk about the teachings.

David Brower:              The life of a or is it the life of … The Law of Attraction. That’s what it is, huh?

Kelli Cooper:                Yes. We have the Law of Attraction. There’s this idea that there’s these universal laws that determine how reality functions, not just on earth where … not the only people on this infinite universe, but yeah, the universe as a whole. The Law of Attraction basically is the idea that inner world creates outer. There’s this invisible layer to everything that’s comprised of energy; our thoughts, our feelings, our beliefs, all of that internal stuff. Whatever’s dominant there, that’s going to influence what manifests in the physical so the idea is that the physical world we [inaudible 00:01:27] and what’s comprised of that; our finances, our relationships, our jobs, all of that is the level of effect. It being influenced by this level of cause, which is of the mind, of emotion, of our belief system.

David Brower:              When somebody, and I have some friends that do this and I’m sure I’ve done it myself, somebody says, “Love, attraction.” You go, “I don’t know. I’m just gonna throw that out to the universe and see what comes back to me,” but it’s obviously much more complicated than that ’cause you like to … A lot of misconceptions, I guess, would be the right word so part of your goal is to fix that.

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah. When I started studying the teaching more deeply, I think it’s often presented … I think one of the biggest misconceptions about it as you’ll … It’s often presented as like this tool you can use to improve your life that maybe you weren’t using before. People think of the Law of Attraction and manifesting as this very action-oriented thing. They make it synonymous with things like vision boards and affirmations and visualizing and scripting and all these great tools, but the Law of Attraction is, if we look at it as a universal law that always been operating in your life, you realize that all those tools, they’re a great way to be conscious with your energy, to sharpen focus, to help you focus in ways that serve you. In that respect, they’re very useful and I highly recommend people engage their energy consciously in whatever ways resonate with them.

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah. It’s not about using it to change your life, it’s understanding that you’ve always been creating your life by the content of your energy, your energetic signature, if you will. Now that you have this knowledge, you can be more conscious in this creation. You can question your beliefs. You can question the contents of your inner world, whereas before, you might not have been doing that. You were creating your life with your belief system, with your focus, with your thoughts and your feelings, but you didn’t really know the content of all of that. You didn’t know that’s what was really the primary factor. Now with the knowledge, you can do it more consciously. You’ve always been doing it. It’s not something you weren’t doing before and now you do it now. It’s like it’s always been happening.

David Brower:              Now you learn how to manage it and understand it.

Kelli Cooper:                It’s like you have the knowledge of it. It’s like, “Oh, okay, interesting. My belief system is shaping my reality. You know I’ve never given a lot of thought to what do I believe?”

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                “How do I think the world works? What do I think about money? How do I view myself?” Then that questioning, you can see, you’ll start to connect the dots between the belief system and then what’s happened in your life. You’ll start to see the connection more clearly.

David Brower:              A really good friend of mine, we’ve been friends for a long time, he is the epitome of what you said earlier about, “Okay, I wanna do this. I’m gonna manifest this. I’m gonna make this happen. I’m gonna make this happen.” It’s just A-B-C-D-E-F-G with no comprehension and I say this to his face. I’m not saying anything behind his back. There’s just no comprehension at any level about what you’re talking about. This is like-

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah.

David Brower:              New territory for so many people.

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah. You know what? There’s great power in setting that intention. I wanna a relationship. I want to improve my health. I want to lose that weight. I want to improve my finances. I want a better job. That is like the … It gets the ball rolling ’cause-

David Brower:              Right.

Kelli Cooper:                You have to say, “Gee, okay. What do I want to create in my life?” But, yeah, it’s really about … It’s not so much of attracting what you want. You’re not gonna attract what you want ’cause if wanting was all you needed to do, then you’d get what you wanted no matter what your energy was like because “Well, hey, I want it.” “Okay. Here you go.”

David Brower:              Right.

Kelli Cooper:                But you attract what you are. Then you have to think, okay. Energetically my belief system, my thoughts, my feelings, how I focus, how I respond to the events of my life and what I think about them, is all of that in alignment with receiving this thing? And if people ask that question, then they might get a better sense of maybe why they’re using “The Law of Attraction” to get what they want and nothing’s happening. Then they start to see, oh, energetically, maybe I’m not quite aligned with this reality that I’m envisioning. I want a boyfriend, but I believe all guys are jerks.

David Brower:              Right. Right.

Kelli Cooper:                I want to make more money, but I actually have been poor all my life and I really can’t see how make this money. I think what happens is we can sectionally understand the teaching. Intuitively, something resonates and we think yeah, maybe that … I feel then this makes sense to me that it’s not just random and chaotic, like there’s an order to what’s happening.

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                But as far as really buying in, that’s something that can take time. In order to make that transition, we often have to look at the energy of where we are now and the energy of created what we’re dealing with now and see, okay, what do I need to clean up there ’cause just to go right to asking the universe for what you want. Then waiting to get it, it’s like yeah, in theory, that’s all you need to do, but in reality, energetically, you’re not in that space. The humans part of us, the humanness of our being that yeah, fear is a limiting beliefs and we self-sabotage and all these tendencies. It’s like we have to examine what going on there a bit and clean that up and then we can move to the positivity and trying to believe all these wonderful things that will make our life so great ’cause if we try to just jump right to that, it usually doesn’t work very well.

David Brower:              Well, you took the words right out of my mouth. My next question was gonna be about fear and sabotage because I think when we don’t understand something that causes fear and if we don’t understand it enough, then we’re gonna sabotage it so that we don’t even take the chance on giving it a go, right?

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah. That’s really important with manifesting because this ideas of yeah, believe what you want is possible and it’s possible. It’s like, “Yeah. Awesome. That’s really a very important part of the process actually,” if your belief system is dictating your reality, but when it comes to … Again, like what I was talking about with that theory versus reality of the process. In reality, our energy is a little bit dirtier, if you might say-

David Brower:              Sure.

Kelli Cooper:                And just believing what we want, won’t be enough because we can believe something’s possible, but if there’s a part of us that has a conflict about getting this thing, energetically, that would be an issue. Like you say you wanna have a lot of money, but if you have negative associations with having money, if you have negative associations about people with money, for example, there is a part of you that’s not on board with this manifestation of more money. For example, if you grew up in a blue-collar family that was like, “We’re not rich, but we’re honest kind of people,” that have this negative view of wealthy people, there might be a part of you that consciously it doesn’t make sense, but a part of you that’s like, “If you make a lot of money, your family’s gonna think you’re a bad person.”

David Brower:              Oh, that’s right.

Kelli Cooper:                It’s important to examine that stuff because consciously we think these beliefs would sound silly or like no, but the part of us that’s feeling these things is not rational. It’s not logical. A lot of times the beliefs and fears we have that could sabotage this transformation energetically, they’re going to seem silly or childish or weird or whatever. It’s like, but don’t dismiss it for those reasons because these are often the main issues.

David Brower:              Well, one of the things you mention in a couple of your coaching things that I was reading through is you become more attuned to intuitive nudges, which we all have and more comfortable following them. I think that’s a roadblock for a lot of people. They’ll get a nudge. Well, is that real? Did I make that up?

Kelli Cooper:                When you get more comfortable … If you’re looking to change your life by way of managing your energy in a more positive way, in a way that serves you better. That’s gonna a be a very important part of the process ’cause those intuitive nudges will lead you to things that are going to help you get wherever it is you’re looking to go.

Kelli Cooper:                Sometimes we can dismiss the intuitive nudge because logically doing this thing, well, I don’t see how this fits into getting what I want. It doesn’t make sense or whatever, but a part of aligning energetically is following those intuitive nudges, following your feelings. Ultimately, what we want at the end of the day is to feel a certain way. We think money, a boyfriend, weight loss, improving our health, getting a better job, whatever it is we want on the surface.

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                Ultimately, we want everything we want because we think it will make us feel happier, at peace or some other feeling we crave so when you encounter things that help you feel the way you wanna feel, to go do those things, follow that path because then you will feel those feelings. You’ll start getting what you want right away, which is to feel that way anyway. That energy gets stronger. Then you manifest more things that feel that way. Yeah, that’s where the intuitive nudges and willing to follow your joy, follow your fun, that’s a really important part of the process even if logically you don’t see how these steps and these decisions fit into the picture. Try not to let your mind dictate so much of what you’re doing as what you’re feeling in your heart and what feels right to you.

David Brower:              Well, we’re on the same page here I think in what I was just thinking is that one of the roadblocks is it has to be to not think about it and just feel-

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah. Because thinking and that’s the thing, the way our mind operates and all the thinking we do, logical and planning and how does this work? Let me make sense of this. In many-

David Brower:              Right.

Kelli Cooper:                Many ways in our life and many of the things we do in our life day-to-day, that thinking, the way our mind functions serves us very, very well. It’s not about bashing your mind of, we’re here. Our mind has many important functions for us as humans, but when it comes to spiritual work and inner work and especially something like the Law of Attraction where we just can’t make sense it. We can’t figure out how it works. Why does it work that way? Our minds want so bad to understand and make sense of everything in order to let us do it and be like, “Yeah. Okay. That’s valid. You can proceed.” It requires trust and even sometimes you have to baby step it.

Kelli Cooper:                Sometimes you won’t be able to make these big huge leaps in your thinking or in your decision. It’s too scary. Or you’re not on board enough. That’s okay. Sometimes you baby step it, but yet, it’s really this willingness to trust that your feelings about a teaching like the Law of Attraction. This feeling that you’re supported by the universe and all these wonderful things that we’re told. It feels right to you. It’s feels resonate. It’s about trusting. “Okay. My reaction to that it means, or I’ve touched on something. I trust that maybe there’s some truth to this, and I’m going to just keep going and work through the discomfort that might pop up,” when our mind is offering these opposing opinions and perspective.

David Brower:              When you start with new clients or students and somebody has low self-esteem, my sense is you might get some students like that, that would make the process take a little bit longer [crosstalk 00:12:34]

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah … ‘Cause the thing with like for full development and in general-

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                And the Law of Attraction, specifically, most of us are drawn into this path from a sense of we feel dissatisfied with our life. We want more. We’re not happy with where we are. Maybe we’re dealing with some emotional trauma or something. We’re maybe not in a great space physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever. That’s normal that we’re kinda drawn … Especially the Law of Attraction, in particular ’cause we tend to be drawn to it because we feel like we’re lacking something.

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                We’re not happy. “Oh, the Law of Attraction, according to that I can manifest it. Great. Maybe I can have money. Maybe I can have a boyfriend now. My life sucks and maybe it doesn’t have to suck anymore.” People can come into it with varying degrees of like “issues.” That’s normal because we all have them. I think a big part of doing this work is honoring where you are when you’re starting it and being willing to take it slow with the transformation because you probably just can’t adopt these whole new beliefs overnight. This whole new view of yourself, where you’re like-

David Brower:              You bet.

Kelli Cooper:                “Oh, my God. I’m so wonderful.” [inaudible 00:13:38] you  self-loathing going to like, “I’m the best.” So-

David Brower:              Right. Right.

Kelli Cooper:                With self-esteem, in particular, a big part of working through that is really …. because the reason we feel a certain way is because we’ve had things happen in our life that objectively, inherently, have no objective meaning. They mean nothing. We are … Our mind defines a meaning to it. Someone treats us a certain way and our mind decides that happened because of this reason or this or that.

David Brower:              Sure.

Kelli Cooper:                With self-esteem, in particular, we have things happen to us throughout our life; a boyfriend broke up with us, we were made fun of in school, we had an abusive parent that said … Then our mind made this conclusion that like, “Oh, these things happen, too, because there’s something wrong with you.” If someone said something about you bad, well, then it must be true.

David Brower:              Right.

Kelli Cooper:                It’s like a big part of it is questioning these meanings and stories that we’ve assigned to these experiences and if we’re willing to question that this is not some absolute fact. This is maybe not actually what happened. Something happened and I’m assigning a meaning to it that’s not necessarily true. I think it could help people start cultivating this different image of themselves because they’re no longer basing it on all these experiences that actually meant nothing inherently.

David Brower:              Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                They can decide it didn’t mean that.

David Brower:              I love that.

Kelli Cooper:                Just because your boyfriend broke up with you doesn’t mean that you’re a loser. You decided that, but it’s doesn’t mean it’s true.

David Brower:              Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                A lot of it is we have to question why we reach these conclusions about ourselves and then be willing to be like actually that’s not true.

David Brower:              Well, folks, I gotta tell you, if haven’t figured this out so far, Kelli’s style … I’m quoting here. “Kelli’s style is down-to-earth and you don’t think personal development should be so damn serious all the time.” I just love the way you write. I love the way you communicate and-

Kelli Cooper:                Oh, thank you. I’m glad.

David Brower:              It welcomes people into this conversation and this is like the fastest 60 minutes of my life. It’s been so cool. Let’s talk about-

Kelli Cooper:                I could talk forever.

David Brower:              Yeah. I know. I love it though. Let’s talk about your … I mean your website is full of opportunities for people to reach out to you at You’ve got coaching. You’ve got blogs. You got podcasts. You got e-books. What … Let’s say, you just peeked somebody’s interest. What’s the best way for them to reach out to you and find out what might be possible for them?

Kelli Cooper:                I will just say the website you just gave,, that’s the best portal into my world.

David Brower:              Okay.

Kelli Cooper:                Like you said, I have my blogs, podcasts. I have products. I offer private coaching. The e-book’s half for sale on Amazon. They’re linked in website as well. Yeah. I would say head on over there and I have contact information there on my “About me” page if you wanted to reach out. Email any questions. Yeah. I think if people resonated with my take on this teaching, I think-

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                You’ll find my website a really great resource because I specialize in the breaking things down in a way that intellectually how we view everything and no, not just hey, think about what you want and get it, but I like to go into the different ways that we can be resistant to these changes and the way our mind works. Help people work through it without taking their mind out of the equation because you can’t. It’s there and it’s gonna-

David Brower:              Right.

Kelli Cooper:                Think and question and all of this. I try to help people work through all of that so that they can get a better understanding of maybe what’s happening in their energy now, maybe why they’re having trouble making these energetic transformations and why they’re maybe holding on to the things that are helpful for them. Yeah, I really approach it, I try to really take into account the reality of the situation, where as of humans, we are dealing with limiting beliefs and fears and self-sabotage and what stuff we talked about before.

David Brower:              Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                And helping people work through that because the theory of manifesting is a very simple teaching. Yeah. Think about what you want, align with it, believe it’s possible and wait for it to show up. In theory, that’s really all it is, but the theory of manifesting doesn’t really take … Any theory the reality is not taken into account in real world conditions so-

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                The real world conditions of our energy, it’s not that quite that cut and dry because we’re not in that space emotionally and vibrationally and energetically.

David Brower:              We’re much more complicated than we think we are.

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah. We are. We can be complex. We have a lot of weird stuff going on and I try to untangle all that weirdness so that we can actually move into that space in a real meaningful way.

David Brower:              When they go to your website … Folks, when you go to her website,, you can read about Kelli. You can take a look at the coaching opportunities that she could share with you. You can read her blog. She’s got podcasts that you can listen to and subscribe to. She’s got five e-books there. I mean it’s a huge, huge resource-

Kelli Cooper:                Yeah.

David Brower:              That even you just spent some time on her website, you’re gonna get a little epiphany that goes, “Hm, I better reach out to her.”

Kelli Cooper:                I hope so. Yeah. I have hundreds of pieces of content on there.

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                I have enough to keep people quite busy.

David Brower:              Well, it’s so well written. It’s so easy to read and it’s not dumbed down for anybody. It’s real language with real solutions. I think it’s cool, man. Really nice [crosstalk 00:19:05]

Kelli Cooper:                I try to. I’m just a human like everybody else. I’m on the journey as well and I’m still figuring it all out and I just share what has helped me and with people that resonate with my content and my perspective on it, I hope that they-

David Brower:              Yeah.

Kelli Cooper:                Get the same benefit.

David Brower:              Hey, thanks again. Have a great holiday and a safe trip to Thailand.

Kelli Cooper:                Thank you so much, David.

Alan:                            Until next time, don’t forget to download your free audiobook at That’s for your free audio book and thanks for listening to your 20 Minute Podcast with David Brower.