Transcript:                    David Brower:  Now, here’s part two of our interview with Ben Brown.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah. You got nothing.

David Brower:              Nothing.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah.

David Brower:              Wow.

Ben Brown:                  That’s why you don’t see them out there every day. Damn it, if they were out there every day, they’d have a multi-million dollar house.

David Brower:              Absolutely right. Oh my goodness.

Ben Brown:                  They don’t need that much to live on. So $300 to $600 is good for them.

David Brower:              Well, yeah. They got no employees, they got no CRM. They might have a dog.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah, they go out there for a couple hours a day and make $300, they’re good for a couple days. That’s why you don’t see them out there.

David Brower:              I love it.

Ben Brown:                  They’re not working.

David Brower:              I love it.

Ben Brown:                  But they’re focused. They know when they’re out there and they’re not embarrassed. They’re not thinking about anybody else when they’re out there. “Oh, I could do that.” So when you have a homeless person, “I could do it.” Hell, if your family was starving you would do it.

David Brower:              In a heartbeat.

Ben Brown:                  Right. So, what’s the difference between that and doing it for your business?

David Brower:              Yeah. That’s fascinating. I’ve never heard that approach, and it absolutely makes all the sense in the world. Oh, my gosh.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah.

David Brower:              You should have people lining up, man.

Ben Brown:                  I know. It’s coming. But I’m just saying, I teach on that premises. Sales is what every business … Basically, your business is sales. It’s not marketing.

David Brower:              Right.

Ben Brown:                  It’s not pretty business cards, it’s not a glorious website. You should be able to pick up a phone … Here’s what happened to one client about two years ago. I said, “I want you to line up the 50 most hot leads or internet leads you have.” I said, “I want you to bring them and put them in front of your desk, and I’ll be down there at like 9:30.” He’s like, “Okay, great.” I said, “All right, great.”

I get down there and I go, “All right, here’s the 50 people on a piece of paper. I want a piece of paper, I don’t want a computer screen. Turn the computer screen off.” I don’t know, he thought I was going to call them or something, I don’t know. ‘Cause I knew what he was thinking. I came down there and I said, “All right, here’s the script. I’m going to write out one-liner. Hi, my name is such-and-such, I’m from such-and-such company. Let me see if I can help you. What questions do you have?” I said, “This is what I want you to say. Let’s get on the phone and call them.” He looked at me and turned as white as a ghost. He was like, “What?” I’m like, “We’re going to call people.”

David Brower:              Unbelievable. And then he saw it work, right?

Ben Brown:                  Yeah, they freak out. You come out of college, and I’ll give you another scenario. From kids, we were trained to sell. That’s why people come from overseas and they do well because everything overseas is negotiate. In America, if you can’t afford it, you don’t buy it.

David Brower:              Right.

Ben Brown:                  You don’t negotiate. The only thing you negotiate is house and car. People get freaked out by negotiating. That’s why you need to talk to us. No discrimination, Indian guys or Jewish guys, you give them the best advice you can and they’re always going to come back to you and say, “Can you give me a better deal?” They love to negotiate. We don’t. It’s a fear factor.

What happened is that in the Western Civilization, you go through school, you don’t have to negotiate unless you’re doing a paper route or Girl Scout cookies or something like that. You get this great education, you go through K through 12, you go to college, you get your management business degree. You go into actual corporate for a little while, you learn, oh, I’m selling.

So now you start your own business. Now you’re in your own business, you got a product or a service that you start, now you realize you get [inaudible 00:03:27] that you actually have to sell. The problem is you haven’t done it for 25, 30 years. You haven’t had to sell. So now you’re totally uncomfortable-

David Brower:              Well, the last thing he has is a process ’cause he’s totally uncomfortable.

Ben Brown:                  You have $80,000, $90,000, $150,000 in college education and business management, and you can’t sell.

David Brower:              They go, “Yep. What can you do to help me?”

Ben Brown:                  Well, I could talk technical all day. Technical is not going to get you paid.

David Brower:              Right.

Ben Brown:                  That’s why I said that’s a disadvantage if you can say sales are going away, and that’s why everybody loves these funnels, and I can build a website, and I can put 5,000 on the … They want people to click and buy, and I could build this funnel. It’s great. I said that’s low-hanging fruit. What happens when the trend comes in? Your competition realizes you’re dominating and they start doing it or replicating it, or the trend people stop buying it or it gets inundated. What are you going to do? Are you going to get on the phone and start calling people?

David Brower:              No, hell, no. I’ve never had to do that before.

Ben Brown:                  Right, so then they go, “I’m going to hire somebody.” So now that you don’t know how to sell, how are you going to hire somebody? Now you’re losing money by hiring some other people.

David Brower:              Exactly. You’re creating who you are, ’cause that’s all you know, oh my gosh.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah.

David Brower:              Wow.

Ben Brown:                  I tell people, “Give me your 30-second.” They can’t give me a 30-second.

David Brower:              Oh my gosh.

Ben Brown:                  I ask them, “Why should I buy your product? You’ve been in business how long?” “10 years.” “Okay, why should I buy from you?”

David Brower:              30 seconds, that’s all I want.

Ben Brown:                  They can’t answer.

David Brower:              Man.

Ben Brown:                  Like, “Because I try to give good quality service.” “Why should I buy from you?” That’s your mantra, you start off with that. When I start with businesses, I start building them from that point of domination, from the sales aspect, not a marketing. Let’s break this down, let’s figure out what your story is, what you’re trying to produce, because in all essence, and I tell people, 60% of sales is confidence, that’s what it is. There’s people out there that sell, but don’t close. I’ve been on lot of bouts, but I’m like, “Why didn’t you ask for the money?” “I just send a quote and I call them back.” I’m like, “Why would you waste-”

David Brower:              Oh, no.

Ben Brown:                  Oh, yeah.

David Brower:              Wow.

Ben Brown:                  Oh, yeah, I’ve seen some horrible, horrible things. I’m like, “You went out there and spent an hour, and you just leave a quote?” “Yeah, and then I call them back.” What?

David Brower:              They haven’t been taught, they haven’t been trained, they don’t have a process, and they’re doing the best they can with what they know, which ain’t much.

Ben Brown:                  Right, and most of these people are generating six figures. A lot of these companies are generating six figures. That’s why I interview the people that I work with. I have to interview people because I want the benefit of them getting what they want, and if they’re not willing to work for it, I don’t work with them, because I’m not going to do it for them. I tell them it’s going to be hard. It’s going to be difficult sometimes things you won’t understand, but the benefit is that you’ll be able to do this for the rest of your life and you’re looking at it a different way. But I don’t work with people I can’t get benefits from, because if you look at my book, the way you build businesses are referrals. If I teach you and it doesn’t work for you, you’re not getting any referrals.

David Brower:              Yeah, exactly right.

Ben Brown:                  I’m not going to work with somebody that’s not going to give me referrals. The money, what I tell people, that you pay me is for you to pay attention.

David Brower:              Well, they got to have some skin in the game.

Ben Brown:                  You got to pay me, and I tell people, “Are you ready to invest yourself?” It’s one of the first things I get into after I interview. “Are you ready to invest in yourself?” “Well, this, that, and the other.” Uh-uh, this is not for you then. You got to be able to … it’s not a $50 product. It’s a $1,000, because I only deal with people-

David Brower:              Yeah, if you want something quick, then you should go to Burger King, man, this is not what you want.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah, I tell them go get my book. “Go get the book, please, and then call me.” Because this is a movement item, this is a skill, this is something you can use the rest of your life, so it’s not like … You can open up another business as long as you know how to sell, ’cause we do that. I’m taking people that’s making 80 and putting them to 160, 170, 200, 200,000, because I analyze their business and say, okay, I see the benefit, so when you drop six to ten grand on me, you’re making 50, you’re going to spend six, and then in the end you’re going to make 100.

David Brower:              Right.

Ben Brown:                  Right? So, that’s the math that I tell them. Are you willing to do that? Tremendously, there’s a large 40% of people who want to do it. I give them the numbers. I say, “You’re going to spend six to ten with me, you’re making 80, and I see where I can make you 160, because I know you’re not doing this, you’re not doing this, you’re not doing this. We’re going to tighten all that up.” They go, “Uh.”

David Brower:              You’re going to pay me what? 10%, I’m going to double your income, and you’re going to pay me 10% of the extra that I’m bringing in the door. How can you not do that?

Ben Brown:                  Yeah, and most sales consultants take a percentage, and I’m not taking a percentage because I’m early in the game. I got to get you now when I see.

David Brower:              I’m proven and I’m reasonably priced.

Ben Brown:                  I said I want to be a mini Grant Cardone, but in my own way. There’s enough out there to help people when it comes to sales, a tremendous amount. I have tremendous amount of respect for Grant Cardone, Jeffrey Gitomer and the way they do it. Everybody’s like a therapist.

Some business, they’re getting their butts kicked. They need more sales. They reach out to me, and I’ll be like, “Who’s your competition?” “This guy, but they’re dishonorable.” I said, “They’re kicking your butt. Do you know why? ‘Cause they know how to sell. It’s doesn’t matter whether their product is good or not.”

David Brower:              Right, absolutely.

Ben Brown:                  “They’re kicking our butt, but they’re product is not as good, it’s inferior.” I said, “You’re so bogged down in just doing low-hanging fruit and stuff like that, you’re not sales-minded. They are. They don’t care. They’re going to get the money. You’re worried about customer service and you in five years will be extinct.”

David Brower:              Absolutely right.

Ben Brown:                  And they will still be going.

David Brower:              You’re going to spend more time worrying about them, instead of fixing your own damn self. Wow. Your book is my book, Master the Art of Closing the Sale. It’s available at, all major online book sellers. The 10-step process, that’s got to be fascinating. Are the 10 steps for businesses? Are the 10 steps for salespeople? That’s what I thought.

Ben Brown:                  That’s their life, really. Not every business needs 10 steps. If you’re in a small … It depends on the product or service. That’s why I’m able to customize. You don’t need all 10 steps sometimes.

David Brower:              That’s where your screening ability comes in and their ability to buy into what you have so you can make a valuable recommendation to them.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah, and say here’s your process. Here’s your process. Here’s what you need to do every day and focus on these steps. I call them steps. I say rules, the reason I say rules is you’ll skip steps but you won’t break rules.

David Brower:              Exactly right.

Ben Brown:                  You don’t want to skip any of the steps, so sometimes I go steps and rules, because if you skip step number three, you realize … The first thing I teach people when I work with them, the first rule period, is you never assume anything. It’s all ruled out by questions, everything. You never assume you have the money, don’t have the money, don’t assume the decision maker, not decision maker, if they have a problem. It’s all ruled out by questions. The difference between a good and great salesperson is not only the questions that they ask, but the number of questions that they ask.

David Brower:              And their ability to listen. That’s right.

Ben Brown:                  And have the balls or confidence to ask the questions, which most people don’t.

David Brower:              Absolutely right. That’s good living.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah.

David Brower:              I love talking to you, man. We’ve gone over, ’cause I wanted to go over ’cause this is just fascinating. I’m going to turn this podcast into a two-parter ’cause it’s such good information, and people need to pay attention to what you’re talking about. They need to be aware and open that they could do a lot better than they’re doing, and feel a lot better about it, yeah.

Ben Brown:                  It’s fun, once you know it. When you sit on the other side, and I’ll put this down as a caveat for you, one of the things that’s not in the book and everything else, I said I worked for a company where we were so good at sales that one of the things I used to do because we used to stand up and talk and had the headset on, pitching all day long, and so I would have this ball I would … I would stand ’cause I felt movement creates emotion. So don’t sit down, most people I’m like, “Get out of the chair when you’re pitching. Move.” You got to get them exciting, you got to get them up to your level. You don’t have to be a high pitch like a used-car salesman, but in this interview that you had, have you heard me say [inaudible 00:12:11] up? No, right?

David Brower:              Yeah.

Ben Brown:                  It’s a flow. It’s a constant communication. You never heard me disrupt or hesitate, even though we haven’t practiced, I don’t know have a script, but that becomes the natural ability of being in sales is being able to flow that conversation the way you want to. They’ll either slow it down or speed it up. It becomes fun. You could add a dialect, you could add a Texas accent, you could go for New York, you can change it the way you want.

David Brower:              Exactly right.

Ben Brown:                  One of the things that I used to do fun, I had one of those clock stoppers that you used to use when you play chess.

David Brower:              Sure.

Ben Brown:                  That when you hit it, the clock starts. One of the major things that we teach in sales that you should automatically know in sales is that once you build all of this momentum to get the person to the close, which can be anywhere a process between one hour to 30 seconds to two weeks to finally get to the point where you ask for the money, the first rule in sales on that is the first one talking loses.

David Brower:              That’s a law.

Ben Brown:                  That’s a law.

David Brower:              That’s not a rule, that’s a law.

Ben Brown:                  That’s not a rule, that’s a law, and if you know, and I tell people, when you get to that point and you ask for the close, if you actually say anything beyond that, it’s like building a house and you finally get to the top to put the roof on-

David Brower:              In a heartbeat.

Ben Brown:                  … and you break the entire house down.

David Brower:              Yeah.

Ben Brown:                  In a heartbeat, and they don’t realize that. So knowing that-

David Brower:              Dude, you got two ears and one mouth. Use them proportionately. Shut the hell up.

Ben Brown:                  I was in a room where you can know if the client, this is back in ’96 before computers. We hated it when we got computers ’cause it slows everything down. It slows everything down. I want to dial and smile. I don’t have time to go to the next record and log in and put … Just dial. Just give me the next guy.

I get this guy on from Texas, and it’s about a $2,300 deal, software, and first call, whatever, blah, blah, blah, get the word in. I get the word in and I go, “So what card to you want to put it on?”

David Brower:              Nice.

Ben Brown:                  And I hit the meter. I hit it. Right then and there, I’m just flipping ball, just flipping the ball, and I’m in a room with 125 guys loud behind me. I just closed, I just hit the deal, my manager’s looking at me, he’s managing about 15 guys like that, and I give him the point signal and I said, “I just hit the close.” He just goes, “Okay.” I just give him the nod, he gives me the nod.

Now I’ve been doing this all day, so I’m just finished. I’m done. I’m waiting. I’ve done my job. People are going to tell you, you’ve just done your job, don’t do anything else. Don’t add onto it. Don’t come back. Don’t do it, you’re going to kill yourself. So I’m sitting there, and so I had the ticker going, and once it got past five minutes, people in the room got interested. Brown got a five-minuter. Every minute on the hand I would point at my manager, and my manager would look at me and look down, technology and nod, which means that the guy is still on the phone-

David Brower:              Man, I’d like to be a fly on his wall.

Ben Brown:                  He’s still on the phone. He’s sitting there six minutes, seven minutes, eight minutes, and I’m just still sitting there spinning the ball, haven’t said a word.

David Brower:              I love it.

Ben Brown:                  Eventually, in 10 minutes and 35 seconds later, he comes in and he goes, “Well.” He says, “Well.” Then 35 seconds later, he comes back in and he says-

David Brower:              Nice.

Ben Brown:                  “Let’s do it.” Now anytime in between that 10 minutes I would have came back and said, “You know what else I got for you?” Or “Are you still there?” Or “Are you still thinking about it?” Or “What else we got?”

David Brower:              You would have been gone.

Ben Brown:                  Or “Do you think that’s a great deal?” Or “Are you still there?” He would have been gone. You’ve got to know these different things and have the discipline to understand that when I give you a close, I’m just waiting. I want to hear you cringe. I remember many times, the guy’s tapping. I’m like I hear you tapping the credit card on the desk, just go ahead and give me the first numbers.

David Brower:              Yeah, does your card start with four?

Ben Brown:                  Stop playing with me. You know you want it. Throw me an objection so I can knock it out of the park.

David Brower:              That is good living.

Ben Brown:                  Spend less time with me and more with your wife by not giving me another objection, and just give me the card.

David Brower:              You could have had a drink and hors d’oeuvres with the time you sat here tapping your card.

Ben Brown:                  Yeah, because I teach, taught sell it. The steps that I teach, you’re getting everything up front. Who, where, what, when, why is all up front. I don’t want to waste your time, so I’m going to qualify you. I’m going to make sure and ask you before I present to you if I could, would you? I’m not going to sit up there and waste your time. I want to know that I’m going to be able to help you. If I’m going to be able to help you, if I could help you, and I can throw the price in, so step number four I teach is [inaudible 00:16:54] presentation.

Now that I know you want it and why you want it and the emotional trigger why you want it, I’m going to ask you a question. Based on everything that we just went over, I know your problem is this. I have a question for you. If I’m able to provide you a solution for that, that could be cost effective for you and get you everything that you basically need, and we’re talking a cost around $1,800, is there anything possibly in life that’s holding you back from doing business with me?

David Brower:              Right, and you’re going to wait. I love it.

Ben Brown:                  I’m going to wait. I’m going to wait. Did I tell you what I have?

David Brower:              Nope.

Ben Brown:                  No. Did I do a 30-minute presentation?

David Brower:              Nope.

Ben Brown:                  Did I tell you a five-minute presentation? No, I’m asking you based on your problem, I have a solution, if I could provide you with a solution and if I’m confident enough and we’re talking a cost, I could throw an approximate cost ’cause I’m going to qualify you up front, about $1,800, is that affordable for you?

The guys goes, “$1,800?” I’m like, “Yeah, $1,800 based on that.” “Well, I’m looking for something around five.” I go, “Okay.” So right there I know, “Let me ask you a question, even if it was a dollar, would you buy it today?” “Yeah.” “So $500 is where you’re at, I’m at $1,800, is there a way based on what I’m going to tell you that’s going to be an advantage for you, are you willing to spend more money?” “No, my budget’s 500.”

David Brower:              Exactly.

Ben Brown:                  You know you got no room, so I said, “Well, have a nice day.” I just saved myself 30 or 40 minutes. You go into a presentation, you get to where you’re going, you close, what card do you want to put it on, $1,800-

David Brower:              No, I’ll walk from 500 to get 1,800 on the next call all day long, right?

Ben Brown:                  Right. Then your confidence level will go down of why he didn’t buy, ’cause you didn’t qualify. It’s not his fault, it’s yours.

David Brower:              Hey, folks, if you want to get ahold of Ben Brown, social media, he’s everywhere,, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Just put in 360 Sales or 360 Sales Consulting. Be sure to check out his book, the Master the Art of Closing the Sale: The Game-Changing 10-Step Sales Process for Getting More Clients and Referrals. Ben, this has been such a treat, man. I’ve really, really enjoyed our time together, and I wish you continued success.

Ben Brown:                  Awesome. Reach out to me. Always willing to help.

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